1. Misunderstanding Or Overdramatizing Evidence

There are three types of misinterpretation of c!Dream in my opinion; and by that I mean anyone's take ever, whether it's a c!Dream anti or a c!Dream apologist or a c!Dream enthusiast. That's right, I'm making an essay about how in my mind everyone is wrong. This is how I lead debates please don't unfollow me-

1. misunderstanding or overdramatizing evidence

c!Dream apologists; g-guys. I'm not saying he isn't traumatized, but look. I really used to believe he was just everyone's victim and hurt and mentally unstable, and I'm not saying he isn't at all, but I changed my mind because I feel like the evidence doesn't,, point that way at all. Your emotions are valid, but your takes are very removed from what the rest of the fandom thinks because you take little hints and try to make them into some big angsty point within canon.

The evidence we have proves he is more ruthless than anything; even the content creator says that. He doesn't say why he does progressively more ruthless things, and he does say it's for his ideals and out of good intentions, but he doesn't say anything about him being hurt into doing it.

I'm not saying he isn't hurt. But making analysis of an entire character based on something that is barely supported by canon isn't the way I roll and I feel like it's one of the reason why people assume all c!Dream apologist are going to woobify the character,, because some of them really do that.

I don't mind portraying him as hurt by what's happened in canon, because that is a completely safe conclusion, but jumping to the victim side of the scale seems a little bit like painting a completely different picture than what actual canon says. (Note: talking about pre-Pandora c!Dream here.)

There is tragedy in someone being driven by the environment, circumstances and themselves deeper and deeper into corruption, but it feels like by only considering that the entire character is limited to one side of the argument.

I like to also see the side of him that will hurt people because he thinks he has to, because he wants to succeed above all, the side that will ruthlessly murder and manipulate and be calculative and clever and even self-destructive about it because he believes that'll get him towards his ultimately selfless goal.

That's my morally complex bastard.

A lot of people seem to be mistaking or ignoring that for the sake of saying he is just... hurt and that that is an explanation of his actions, and even though they don't use it as an excuse, it feels a little cheap.

And here we come to the core of the problem: an emotional vs. rational explanation for the character's actions.

Because the thing is, with enough evidence, you will see that nearly (we'll get to that in a bit) everything he does can be explained rationally. Everything is connected, everything is the most logical and efficient and merciless route straight from point A to point B, because c!Dream is fascinatingly smart when you look deeper into it.

He knows what he's doing. He knows his actions are awful, and he doesn't care - not because he would be some evil person, but because his mindsets cause him to justify such things, and mindsets are more complicated than feelings.

There is a lot to explore in that direction of the character, but that is material for another essay.

In short, people seem to enjoy removing all of his agency in favor of explaining his actions emotionally rather than from a rational standpoint which results in inaccurate analysis.

Do I think it is completely understandable he attacked L'Manberg?

Absolutely.

Do I think c!Wilbur painted him as a villain to benefit his own power?

Yes.

Do I think he utilized the villain persona as an intimidation tactic and often went overkill with no regard for anything but accomplishing his goals and that he slowly became more and more willing to do bad things of his own accord because he became determined and distrusting of the world to the point of committing horrible actions?

100%.

Analysing that part of the character is the most interesting part, when you consider it - and an important one as well.

2. ignoring evidence

c!Dream antis; please. Stop saying he doesn't care or explaining his actions with obsession or assigning him personality traits or motives that he literally doesn't have in order to demonize him I beg of you.

It's so many basic and easily debunkable assumptions that can be explained with what we actually know of his motives. People will ignore both canon and the authors' words to paint him as some monster with no nuance, which he is not.

We only know so much about him, but people will ignore and deny even the little bit we have for the sake of making him the literal personification of evil and erasing the fact that he is a complex and human character. Just accept he can be accurately analysed beyond hate and let people do it if you don't want to do so yourself.

3. assuming the evidence we have is everything you need to determine a final approach and that nothing outside of the presented evidence exists when certain details prove otherwise

c!Dream enthusiasts; this was the only and biggest problem I've had since being introduced to much more rational interpretations of the character - which is emotions, and one of the biggest reasons why c!Dream gets dehumanized in the first place; the fact that we have little to no showcase or explanation of them in canon.

You see, c!Dream is a reserved character. He likes withholding his plans, withholding his feelings and information from the world.

However, since all we can really get out of watching his actions alone is the rational side (and that is deliberate by both the writer and the character, narratively and personality-wise) people slowly begin to assume there is no emotional side to his actions at all.

Which I find,, untrue. Between the people who erase the rational side of the character and those who erase the emotional side, there is little middle ground, but I don't really find either of them right either.

Because neither would be an accurate representation; just because he doesn't actively showcase his feelings doesn't mean he doesn't have them, and the few inconsistencies that are too small a detail for us to put everything together show that he does have an inner emotional world beyond what we see.

The character does work beyond what we know, and expecting that everything can be explained purely by rationality because that's all we see of him seems a little bit jumping the gun.

It leads to a less person-like view of a character who in reality simply doesn't like showing people the way he feels, and I don't really find that fair to him. It is best to accept there are things we can't say for sure, or to say an emotional interpretation can also be valid at times.

It is both important not to deny him agency and not to deny him the ability to be genuinely hurt by others or changed by his environment.

Both of these can coexist, especially in

the correct interpretation

Ok this is a joke.

I have literally no idea. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks - he confuses me beyond belief. The only person who knows about both the emotional and rational side of the character enough to have their interpretation unquestioned is cc!Dream - but when we do try to find answers, it is important for us as well that we do not ignore any aspects or possible aspects of the character, because that is the only way to get useful results out of our analysis.

Sorry this was crit of basically every take about the character I have ever seen but I needed to get my thoughts out.

More Posts from Monsoonrays and Others

11 months ago

How jdj is the side story. I know that LHH is the protag there and most focus is probably on him and his companions. But I just wanted ask for your opinion?

consulted my wife friend about this list so that i wouldn't miss the important moments. a little heads up this post will have side story spoilers

when hsy opens the door at the end of chapter 551, kimcom are sent to a snowfield with two doors in it. in one of them theres a happy ending. kdj woke up and is waving at them. in the 2nd door, kdj didn't wake up. yjh was the first one to enter the 2nd door, Unnoticed by anyone might i add. he's the one who opens the door and says "if it was him, i knew he'd pull something like this"

when we get 49 kdj's pov at the end of season 1 of the side story there's a small scene of yjh bringing 49 food. the scene is not described with full details however we learn that 49 has forgotten most things about yjh, to the point he doesn't even rmbr if yjh has cooked rice for him before. yjh then says this line to him "You don't need to be anything. All that matters is what you want to be" next morning 49 decides to go to the 1865th regression turn in order to help kimcom get back 51.

yjh comes back from a second journey of searching for kdj fragments together with biyoo. he notices that hsy has failed to stop the 41st round, and ignoring lsh's warnings that he's too strong to descend into the 41st worldline bcs the probability will kill him and destroy the worldline immediately once he descends. he says that hsy and ysa need to create conditions for him to descend because "Kim Dokja is mine to bring back" kr fans have noticed that this sentence has two major tones to it. 1, possessive and 2, arrogant. "kdj is mine to bring back since you (hsy) couldn't"

season 3 of the side story has a lot of focus on dkos kdj. he's now lhh's sponsor and talks to him thru midday tryst. and he brings up yjh So Often that even lhh is bored/baffled. not to mention he refers to yjh with a lot of affectionate terms "joonghyuk-ah this, joonghyukie that" recently even selena kim and christina page were all "????" when kdj called yjh "joonghyukie" in front of them

in the beginning of season 3, yjh noticed a source of light enter the "curtain of the 41st worldline" (listen mtl is hard please bear with me) and he immediately slams himself into it, trying to follow after the light. seeing as the curtain is burning him and "grilling him like fish" jaehwan (aka the mc of the world after the fall) has to forcefully pull him back as he shouts "are you crazy" at yjh. spoiler alert, yes he is crazy

not exactly an explicit moment per se, but every time lhh incites himself as kdj or yjh his first thought will always be of the other

in order to subdue an overpowered 41yjh hsy decides to give him happy memories. those memories included a scene where yjh was cooking for kimcom and hsy described it as "yoo joonghyuk was dying from happiness." then the scene quickly puts kdj in the center where he comments about how good yjh's food tastes and that next time they come here (a picnic) they should bring more beef. she succeeds in subduing 41 even though he has never actually met kdj before. later on we learn that 41 also got the memory of the rooftop conversation between kdj and yjh. and like. dare i say. he really sounded a little jealous/sulky abt it. not to call him sp or anything..............

there's a small flashback of a (not written in orv) scene set during 1865th turn. it's about lost memories. yjh tells hsy that he forgets lots of memories whenever he regresses but it's okay because even if he forgets that guy (kdj) will remember them for him.

recent addition: ORV: yjh: you bought a useless skill (preserve humidity) / lsh: but dokja-ssi also has this skill / yjh: kdj has this skill?? *contemplates buying it* |||| SIDE STORY: lhh: this guy (kdj) actually purchased a useless item? (neck pillow) / kdj: but yjh also has this neck pillow / lhh: yjh has this pillow? *after learning its advantages thinks it's a good item* (also kr fans speculate that it was kdj himself the one who bought a neck pillow for yjh)

1 year ago

Hi, thank you for writing the atlas series I love the characters so much especially Callum and I just need to know that the “glimpse of platinum blond winked before the lens” is not accidental that you put it there you know it’s there please even if I breaks my heart I just need to know was it intentional or not. (I love you)

quick q: how would that be an accident

11 months ago
[You Do Not Recognize The Bodies In The Water!!]
[You Do Not Recognize The Bodies In The Water!!]
[You Do Not Recognize The Bodies In The Water!!]

[You do not recognize the bodies in the water!!]

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.

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A short little comic I did for halloween, I've been watching and reading some scp stuff lately and being the type of person to combine stuff I consume with the media I was currently hyperfixating on, I thought "why not do this little crossover for halloween"

It's been a while since I last made some spooky drawings! This one wasn't as spooky as my last ones, but I'm still happy with how it turned out

3 months ago
Kid Eli Holding A Goat, A Picture Taken By His Mom In 1992.

kid eli holding a goat, a picture taken by his mom in 1992.

11 months ago

Have a silly plotbunny, because I'm too lazy to actually write this fic

A joongdok au where the hounds kill yjh and he regresses again. Except this time kdj is right there, yjh refuses to let him go and acts like an aggressive mother hen.

Everyone assumes joongdok are exes when yjh very emotionally accuses kdj of leaving him, jumping on the train and disappearing without a trace. Meanwhile, kdj is having an internal meltdown because he apparently somehow seduced the protagonist in the previous regression, what the fuck?

ysa: Wait, so when you said you have plans at seven and left work early...

kdj: Well, yeah. I was secretly meeting him (in a sense that kdj was reading a book about yjh).

ysa: Oh. That makes sense. Can't blame you.

yjh staring cheong inho right in the eyes and saying, dead serious: If something happens to this idiot while I'm away, I'll kill everyone in this station and then myself.

ysa: I can see why Dokja-ssi broke up with this guy. He's... intense (read: a walking talking red flag).

kdj actually kisses yjh for the first time when yjh finds him after the broken throne and helps him deal with the former bullies. Because it was something straight out of teenage!kdj's daydreams.

After joongdok meet kdj's mom and face her disapproval, legend spreads that joongdok broke up in the past because of lsk being homophobic. lsk is not amused. Uriel personally contacts lsk to tell her that god is not against lgbtq, actually.

Re: the plot. Secretive Plotter isn't there because he's already found his happy ending and is now chilling in another worldline, raising his adoptive kids. The Plotter's absense is compensated by yjh giving kdj spoilers about the turn of events in the past regressions.

When the Disaster of Floods!sys asks yjh about the regression number, yjh honestly says "1866". Cue kdj freaking out. sys immediately feels kinship with kdj because she too is freaking out.

yjh casually reveals the truth about hsy being tls123. hsy is indignant because she can write better than that, damn it, don't insult her writing skills!

1 year ago

Religious Imagery and Symbolism in Eli Ever:

Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:
Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:
Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:

Note : everything in this analysis was or could have been linked in a more generalized and not necessarily true theology, only as a way to try to associate or make connections with the mentioned character.

Baptism

His first death can be likened to a Baptism.

Baptism is a Christian sacrament of initiation and adoption, almost invariably with the use of water. It may be performed by sprinkling or pouring water on the head, or by immersing in water either partially or completely, traditionally three times, once for each person of the Trinity. 

" The baptized person emerges from a watery grave into a new life."

Baptism is a symbol of Christ’s burial and resurrection. The entrance into the water during baptism identifies Christians with Christ’s death on the cross, His burial in the tomb and His resurrection from the dead.

The parallel between Eli's first death and baptism is evident. Just as a baptized person emerges from a "water tomb" into a new life, Eli undergoes a transformation after his first death.

"signifies that "you" have died to your old self and sin, emerging as a new creation."

This means that, in the same way, Eli's death represents a passage into a new phase, where he leaves behind his previous "self", emerging as a new creation, almost like a rebirth.

“Going under the water was a burial of your old life; coming up out of it was a resurrection, God raising from the dead as he did Christ." Colossians 2:12-14

Furthermore, there is an evident connection between sin, death, and God's gift of eternal life. As mentioned next.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

Three

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

The Christian Church has celebrated the resurrection of Jesus Christ on a Sunday—three days after remembering his death on Good Friday. This timeline of three days is based on numerous references in the New Testament. Jesus predicted it many times, the three-day timeline matters to the biblical narrative because it is the special day on which God creates new life and activates his covenant with humanity.

three times he shot victor.

three years since they met.

three times he died ( manifesting he coming back and dying again)

" He met his gaze in the mirror and began to unbutton his shirt, exposing the scars from the bullets of Eli’s gun one by one. He ran his fingers over them, touching the three spots where he’d been shot the way a man might cross himself." Part One; Chapter XXVI , Vicious.

In the Bible, we can find more examples of the use of the number three as sacred or a persistent and symbolic repeating pattern, but I only mentioned these few situations that I found relevant or that fit the narrative of 'Vicious'.

Cross

The Cross, is the principal symbol of the Christian religion, recalling the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the redeeming benefits of his Passion and death. The cross is thus a sign both of Christ himself and of the faith of Christians. In ceremonial usage, making a sign of the cross may be, according to the context, an act of profession of faith, a prayer, a dedication, or a benediction.

"to outline the form of a cross as a Christian religious act by moving the hand from the forehead to the breast and then from one shoulder to the other, seen as representing the trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

The use of blood as part of a ritual is laden with symbolism.

"Wouldn’t You?” He cut deeper, through to bone, over and over, until the floor was red. Until he’d given his life to God a hundred times, and a hundred times had it given back. Until the fear and the doubt had all been bled out of him. And then he set the knife aside with shaking hands. Eli dipped his fingertips in the slick of red, crossed himself, and got back to his feet. "Part Two; Chapter IV, Vicious.

In the context of this specific text, Eli blessing himself with his own blood appears to represent a desperate quest for answers and validation from God regarding his identity and the powers he possesses.

This action can be seen as an extreme act of devotion and sacrifice. It may represent the intensity of Eli's search for a divine answer or for God's forgiveness. Making the sign of the cross with his own blood suggests that he is willing to sacrifice or suffer in search of a deeper spiritual connection or proof of divine will.

Blood, Red & White

"And by the law almost all things are made clean with blood, and without blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22

In the Old Testament, animal sacrifices were a means of seeking forgiveness and reconciliation with God. The shedding of blood in these rituals symbolized the payment for sins.

The New Testament sees the shedding of Jesus' blood on the cross as the ultimate act of redemption. Christians believe that through His blood, believers are forgiven of their sins and reconciled with God.

And also associated with purification and cleansing.

As we know, Eli associates his murders with a distorted view of divine justice. He believes he is eliminating those people he considers unnatural or threats to society, as a purification, justifying his murders as a way of protecting the world from “villains” with extraordinary powers, this vision can be easily associated, by the way he thinks and acts throughout most of the narrative as a clear link to the Christian view of sacrifice and blood itself.

Red, associated with sacrifices, sin, power, sinfulness. can be conected with redemption and atonement. It represents the idea that through Christ's sacrifice, believers can be cleansed of their sins and find redemption, also linked to martyrdom. Martyrs who died for their faith are often depicted wearing red, symbolizing their willingness to shed their blood for their beliefs.

&

White, purity, innocence, righteousness. Associated with the idea of resurrection and new life in Christ. It signifies the hope of eternal life after death, it can also represents the state of being free from sin.

And for red and white, which are colors normally associated with the character as they continue to be described with him in the narrative or mainly associated with the vision that people have of him, with white clothes, gun and glasses being one of the easiest ways to identify him, we can see that both colors connect with sacrifice, martyrdom, purification and eternal life, which are elements present in the character and his narrative.

Name.

In the Villains series, the name theme remains, whether in a satirical way, a reference to comic books or just a way of demonstrating what a character represents.

Eliot means “The Lord is my God", “Jehovah is my God.”

With the meaning of his name I would like to close this brief summary that I tried to make about the symbolism that I could notice predominantly in the narrative of his character, from his name to the meaning of eternal life and the usual theme, we can see that Eli is a character strongly linked to religiosity and can be easily associated with various concepts of Christianity.

Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:
Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:
Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:

Final Note: Thank you if you read this far and I hope you enjoyed it.


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1 year ago
The Gala Scene Lives Rent Free In My Head. Kudos To Anyone If They Can Recognize Which Part Of The Fight

The gala scene lives rent free in my head. Kudos to anyone if they can recognize which part of the fight this is from.


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5 months ago
One Of My Favorite Moments From Vengeful That Is Not Talked About Enough.
One Of My Favorite Moments From Vengeful That Is Not Talked About Enough.

One of my favorite moments from Vengeful that is not talked about enough.

(Vengeful page 494)

(This is inspired by this edit: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1XWjrMNmdZ/?igsh=NnA3NWl4ampydzg2 )


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11 months ago

Canon-Insert Joongdok Fics from YJH’s pov 

as requested by @harapecowee <33

> The Loss of What I Never Asked for and Never Understood by aryelee[Gen, 1.2k]

In the wake of the events in Dark Castle, Yoo Joonghyuk is haunted by a single line: 「 Incarnation Kim Dokja will be killed by the person he loves most. 」

> In the Space of Eternity, A Lone Star by plunderheavenblind [T, 2.6k]

Looking at the sky high above him, Yoo Joonghyuk reached his hand out and yearned.

> Down by absurdherb [Gen, 1.2k]

1863rd regression Yoo Jonghyuk tries to find out who Kim Dokja is and finds a lot more than he bargained for.

> Twilight Dreams by gotcocomilk [T, 4.6k]

It was after the 500th death that Yoo Jonghyuk realized he didn’t mind dying anymore. In the haze of a world that forgot him, and friends and lovers that faded away every time he regressed, there was one constant. There was one companion who always remembered him, no matter how many times he died.

> ”I am Once Again Asking You to Use Your Fucking Words,” Said Everyone. “Never,” Said Yoo Joonghyuk. by icebreeze [T, 6.6k]

Yoo Jonghyuk has a problem, and that problem is that he’s in love with a rat of a man. Uriel helps.

> Star-Crossed by vaphelion [Gen, 7.2k]

On Kim Dokja’s first deathbed, he leaves Yoo Joonghyuk with a curse.

On his second, he tells him why.

> Anticipating Something, Somewhere by phio3 [T, ongoing]

After his disastrous second regression, Yoo Joonghyuk wakes up in the third round, but something is amiss. He catches the eye of a man in the next subway cabin, and that moment derails all of his plans for this regression.

Enjoy!! I hope this is at least somewhat close to what you wanted… this was.. difficult.

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monsoonrays - To never dying
To never dying

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