Religious Imagery And Symbolism In Eli Ever:

This is going to be a long ask, I just wanted to share my feelings about Eli and how other show helped me understand his character better.

I honestly really felt for Eli, one of the major reasons I have such sympathy for him and why he ended up becoming my favorite character is because while I was reading the books I was watching an adult swim

Series called Moral Orel, it’s about a kid living on a very abusive and religious environment, I just developed such sympathy and respect for the main character Orel 1/6

hi Anon! I’m copy-pasting all your other asks here so I can answer them all together (and since the post is quite long):

2/8 That character just reminded me a lot of Eli or more like Eli reminded me of Orel, both boys grew on fundamentalist households, and their dads were physically abusive towards them wherever their fathers did something they deemed as “bad”, while their moms although they weren’t bad per-se they didn’t helped their sons, both Eli and Orel used their faith to get through those situations and both only wanted to do the right thing (they also both died and thought god was the one to bring them back)

3/8 But while one used their faith to justify their horrible actions under the false belief they were doing god’s work, the other was able to raise above the abuse thanks to the guidance of a few people and partly because of his own faith becoming a much better person in the process, this is silly because no one knows or talks about Moral Orel, but I found incredible how it’s main protagonist Orel Puppington helped me understand and sympathize with a character I wouldn’t have had liked otherwise (Eli ever)

4/8 it’s also funny because I have seen threads where few people talked about the show and one of the most interesting topics to discuss were the following quashing:

What would have happened or what kind of person could Orel have had become if he didn’t have the tiny support system that he had?

Orel had three very important persons in his life very much like Eli, who guided him towards the right path, one of them who was his grandfather which was supposed to die from illness, this also reminded me of how Eli lost his family.

5/8 Another interesting questions would be what would have happened if Ore had internalized all the indoctrination that was been fed to him side he was little? on the thread some answered the question by mentioning and theorizing that due the upbringing he had, Due the the toxic patterns he was exposed to and because of the religious zealotism he was raised in they could see him become something akin to a serial killer who killed because he thought he was “saving” the victims.

6/8 This made made me realize even more how similar this characters were, on personalities, upbringing and in relationships, now I headcanon that Eli is something like a bad end Au of what Orel could have had become on the worst possible scenario, thankfully this wasn’t the case and he was able to break the cycle of abuse that was going on his family, by being able to remain a good person and becoming a much better person, husband and father than his own father ever was, sadly the same cannot be said for Eli and there is something very tragic about this.

7/8 When I first read Vicious I didn’t like Eli, but boy my opinion on him changed completely after reading vengeful, it surprises me almost all of the fandom (a tiny one on that) seems to still hate him.

8/8 Now that you mention it, I hated Serena, it was mainly because she attempted to kill Sydney, and how she manipulated pepole, like something felt very personal about it and I just disliked her for it, I can kind of understand why (I mean Eli tried to kill her) but I also hated she basically raped him and no one bated an eye, only tv tropes seem to semi acknowledge what Serena did to Eli. but never outright says it just says that their relationship was mutually toxic.

I had never heard of this tv series (from what i’ve understood after a quick research it’s basically a US an adult stop-motion animated series), but I’m glad it helped empathize with Eli more, especially because from what you’re telling me these characters do share a lot of similarities. 

Eli is a character that I loved from basically page one, even before knowing his backstory, because Victor’s storytelling was so obviously biased that I just couldn’t help waiting for Eli’s point of view and voice in Vicious. So I never disliked him, he was my favorite character in Vicious and my attachment towards him became stronger and stronger throughout my reading of Vengeful (which made the ending just more painful :) ). I wouldn’t say that he uses religion to ‘justify’ his actions tho, more that his beliefs and trauma propel him to act the way he does (and the difference is slight, I recognize, but ‘justifying’ an action implies a process of rationalization ex post which I don’t think happens in Eli’s case, or at least it happens, but religion also plays its past ex ante [I hope my thought is clear but I’m afraid it might not read so lmao]).

The thing you said about support systems and what can happen to people when left alone is incredibly true and it’s something I think about a lot when looking at my favorite characters and characters in general, which is one of the main reasons why I so strongly resent the ‘heroes are better than the villains because they have loved ones’ (because it seems to idk punish certain people for the simple reason that they don’t have people who love them. which isn’t great, considering the implications). Of course you can write a compelling narrative with this trope you just have to be careful imho. But yeah I definitely agree with you that sometimes this can make a difference in a character’s development and growth.

I cannot say I ‘hate’ Serena, but I honestly don’t like her and I wouldn’t be able to properly explain the exact reasons why I don’t, but surely one of the mean reasons is what she did to Eli, which I agree isn’t talked abut nearly enough in the fandom. I agree that she raped him, because she used her power to make him want to sleep with her (which is rape, objectively speaking). The fandom is strange silent regarding this aspect but given the burning hatred everyone and their moms feels towards Eli (which is weird tbh, especially given how much everyone seems to love Victor and thinks him as a better person than Eli when they are at the very least equally awful) it is not surprising. I have endless bones to pick with Eli’s treatment by the fandom and this is just one of them (along with almost everyone calling him a psychopath when... he really isn’t?)

These asks were really interesting! If you want to chat more I’m here, I hope you have a nice day!

Have a silly plotbunny, because I'm too lazy to actually write this fic

A joongdok au where the hounds kill yjh and he regresses again. Except this time kdj is right there, yjh refuses to let him go and acts like an aggressive mother hen.

Everyone assumes joongdok are exes when yjh very emotionally accuses kdj of leaving him, jumping on the train and disappearing without a trace. Meanwhile, kdj is having an internal meltdown because he apparently somehow seduced the protagonist in the previous regression, what the fuck?

ysa: Wait, so when you said you have plans at seven and left work early...

kdj: Well, yeah. I was secretly meeting him (in a sense that kdj was reading a book about yjh).

ysa: Oh. That makes sense. Can't blame you.

yjh staring cheong inho right in the eyes and saying, dead serious: If something happens to this idiot while I'm away, I'll kill everyone in this station and then myself.

ysa: I can see why Dokja-ssi broke up with this guy. He's... intense (read: a walking talking red flag).

kdj actually kisses yjh for the first time when yjh finds him after the broken throne and helps him deal with the former bullies. Because it was something straight out of teenage!kdj's daydreams.

After joongdok meet kdj's mom and face her disapproval, legend spreads that joongdok broke up in the past because of lsk being homophobic. lsk is not amused. Uriel personally contacts lsk to tell her that god is not against lgbtq, actually.

Re: the plot. Secretive Plotter isn't there because he's already found his happy ending and is now chilling in another worldline, raising his adoptive kids. The Plotter's absense is compensated by yjh giving kdj spoilers about the turn of events in the past regressions.

When the Disaster of Floods!sys asks yjh about the regression number, yjh honestly says "1866". Cue kdj freaking out. sys immediately feels kinship with kdj because she too is freaking out.

yjh casually reveals the truth about hsy being tls123. hsy is indignant because she can write better than that, damn it, don't insult her writing skills!

He's so extra

Other versions and a bit of rambling under the cut

Untoned version

Textless version

I've been finding it so damn hard to draw Victor which is mainly why I draw more Eli than Victor. I think it's because I've got this image of him in my head which is hard to translate to paper. Blonds am I right?

Fine art enthusiasts

Thanks to @felidaefighter for providing the screenshot of the painting here

Retirement

There are three types of misinterpretation of c!Dream in my opinion; and by that I mean anyone's take ever, whether it's a c!Dream anti or a c!Dream apologist or a c!Dream enthusiast. That's right, I'm making an essay about how in my mind everyone is wrong. This is how I lead debates please don't unfollow me-

1. misunderstanding or overdramatizing evidence

c!Dream apologists; g-guys. I'm not saying he isn't traumatized, but look. I really used to believe he was just everyone's victim and hurt and mentally unstable, and I'm not saying he isn't at all, but I changed my mind because I feel like the evidence doesn't,, point that way at all. Your emotions are valid, but your takes are very removed from what the rest of the fandom thinks because you take little hints and try to make them into some big angsty point within canon.

The evidence we have proves he is more ruthless than anything; even the content creator says that. He doesn't say why he does progressively more ruthless things, and he does say it's for his ideals and out of good intentions, but he doesn't say anything about him being hurt into doing it.

I'm not saying he isn't hurt. But making analysis of an entire character based on something that is barely supported by canon isn't the way I roll and I feel like it's one of the reason why people assume all c!Dream apologist are going to woobify the character,, because some of them really do that.

I don't mind portraying him as hurt by what's happened in canon, because that is a completely safe conclusion, but jumping to the victim side of the scale seems a little bit like painting a completely different picture than what actual canon says. (Note: talking about pre-Pandora c!Dream here.)

There is tragedy in someone being driven by the environment, circumstances and themselves deeper and deeper into corruption, but it feels like by only considering that the entire character is limited to one side of the argument.

I like to also see the side of him that will hurt people because he thinks he has to, because he wants to succeed above all, the side that will ruthlessly murder and manipulate and be calculative and clever and even self-destructive about it because he believes that'll get him towards his ultimately selfless goal.

That's my morally complex bastard.

A lot of people seem to be mistaking or ignoring that for the sake of saying he is just... hurt and that that is an explanation of his actions, and even though they don't use it as an excuse, it feels a little cheap.

And here we come to the core of the problem: an emotional vs. rational explanation for the character's actions.

Because the thing is, with enough evidence, you will see that nearly (we'll get to that in a bit) everything he does can be explained rationally. Everything is connected, everything is the most logical and efficient and merciless route straight from point A to point B, because c!Dream is fascinatingly smart when you look deeper into it.

He knows what he's doing. He knows his actions are awful, and he doesn't care - not because he would be some evil person, but because his mindsets cause him to justify such things, and mindsets are more complicated than feelings.

There is a lot to explore in that direction of the character, but that is material for another essay.

In short, people seem to enjoy removing all of his agency in favor of explaining his actions emotionally rather than from a rational standpoint which results in inaccurate analysis.

Do I think it is completely understandable he attacked L'Manberg?

Absolutely.

Do I think c!Wilbur painted him as a villain to benefit his own power?

Yes.

Do I think he utilized the villain persona as an intimidation tactic and often went overkill with no regard for anything but accomplishing his goals and that he slowly became more and more willing to do bad things of his own accord because he became determined and distrusting of the world to the point of committing horrible actions?

100%.

Analysing that part of the character is the most interesting part, when you consider it - and an important one as well.

2. ignoring evidence

c!Dream antis; please. Stop saying he doesn't care or explaining his actions with obsession or assigning him personality traits or motives that he literally doesn't have in order to demonize him I beg of you.

It's so many basic and easily debunkable assumptions that can be explained with what we actually know of his motives. People will ignore both canon and the authors' words to paint him as some monster with no nuance, which he is not.

We only know so much about him, but people will ignore and deny even the little bit we have for the sake of making him the literal personification of evil and erasing the fact that he is a complex and human character. Just accept he can be accurately analysed beyond hate and let people do it if you don't want to do so yourself.

3. assuming the evidence we have is everything you need to determine a final approach and that nothing outside of the presented evidence exists when certain details prove otherwise

c!Dream enthusiasts; this was the only and biggest problem I've had since being introduced to much more rational interpretations of the character - which is emotions, and one of the biggest reasons why c!Dream gets dehumanized in the first place; the fact that we have little to no showcase or explanation of them in canon.

You see, c!Dream is a reserved character. He likes withholding his plans, withholding his feelings and information from the world.

However, since all we can really get out of watching his actions alone is the rational side (and that is deliberate by both the writer and the character, narratively and personality-wise) people slowly begin to assume there is no emotional side to his actions at all.

Which I find,, untrue. Between the people who erase the rational side of the character and those who erase the emotional side, there is little middle ground, but I don't really find either of them right either.

Because neither would be an accurate representation; just because he doesn't actively showcase his feelings doesn't mean he doesn't have them, and the few inconsistencies that are too small a detail for us to put everything together show that he does have an inner emotional world beyond what we see.

The character does work beyond what we know, and expecting that everything can be explained purely by rationality because that's all we see of him seems a little bit jumping the gun.

It leads to a less person-like view of a character who in reality simply doesn't like showing people the way he feels, and I don't really find that fair to him. It is best to accept there are things we can't say for sure, or to say an emotional interpretation can also be valid at times.

It is both important not to deny him agency and not to deny him the ability to be genuinely hurt by others or changed by his environment.

Both of these can coexist, especially in

the correct interpretation

Ok this is a joke.

I have literally no idea. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks - he confuses me beyond belief. The only person who knows about both the emotional and rational side of the character enough to have their interpretation unquestioned is cc!Dream - but when we do try to find answers, it is important for us as well that we do not ignore any aspects or possible aspects of the character, because that is the only way to get useful results out of our analysis.

Sorry this was crit of basically every take about the character I have ever seen but I needed to get my thoughts out.

*waves hands around in nonsensical gestures* kim dokja is the pocketwatch of yoo joonghyuk's life in a way. his constant, unchanging, measure of time.

every regression the clock goes back to midnight. once more it is august, and to all who matter to you you are either a stranger or a familiar 28 year old figure. nevermind that you almost had a family. nevermind that this time, you even got a day to call your birthday. or that the time before that, you survived long enough to need to adjust your little sister's clothes.

in another world unknown to you, the clock doesn't stop. it just runs ever so quickly. someone asks when your birthday is. every year they buy a small convenience store cake (the kind you probably would hate), some cheap candles (with no idea what number to even put down), and sit down in a tiny apartment. they clap their hands and wish you a happy birthday. the 1st year, you had 40 regressions. the next, 50. 10 years pass nonlinearly, so they don't really try to give you an age. but they do think, "happy birthday".

a webnovel platform with a "published on" date. a singular comment, every year, "congratulations on another year, author-nim!". a young boy who grows into a young man with your life. when you meet, you are once again 28. and he, freshly 28 now, greets you like an old friend.

How I learned to write smarter, not harder

(aka, how to write when you're hella ADHD lol)

A reader commented on my current long fic asking how I write so well. I replied with an essay of my honestly pretty non-standard writing advice (that they probably didn't actually want lol) Now I'm gonna share it with you guys and hopefully there's a few of you out there who will benefit from my past mistakes and find some useful advice in here. XD Since I started doing this stuff, which are all pretty easy changes to absorb into your process if you want to try them, I now almost never get writer's block.

The text of the original reply is indented, and I've added some additional commentary to expand upon and clarify some of the concepts.

As for writing well, I usually attribute it to the fact that I spent roughly four years in my late teens/early 20s writing text roleplay with a friend for hours every single day. Aside from the constant practice that provided, having a live audience immediately reacting to everything I wrote made me think a lot about how to make as many sentences as possible have maximum impact so that I could get that kind of fun reaction. (Which is another reason why comments like yours are so valuable to fanfic writers! <3) The other factors that have improved my writing are thus: 1. Writing nonlinearly. I used to write a whole story in order, from the first sentence onward. If there was a part I was excited to write, I slogged through everything to get there, thinking that it would be my reward once I finished everything that led up to that. It never worked. XD It was miserable. By the time I got to the part I wanted to write, I had beaten the scene to death in my head imagining all the ways I could write it, and it a) no longer interested me and b) could not live up to my expectations because I couldn't remember all my ideas I'd had for writing it. The scene came out mediocre and so did everything leading up to it. Since then, I learned through working on VN writing (I co-own a game studio and we have some visual novels that I write for) that I don't have to write linearly. If I'm inspired to write a scene, I just write it immediately. It usually comes out pretty good even in a first draft! But then I also have it for if I get more ideas for that scene later, and I can just edit them in. The scenes come out MUCH stronger because of this. And you know what else I discovered? Those scenes I slogged through before weren't scenes I had no inspiration for, I just didn't have any inspiration for them in that moment! I can't tell you how many times there was a scene I had no interest in writing, and then a week later I'd get struck by the perfect inspiration for it! Those are scenes I would have done a very mediocre job on, and now they can be some of the most powerful scenes because I gave them time to marinate. Inspiration isn't always linear, so writing doesn't have to be either!

Some people are the type that joyfully write linearly. I have a friend like this--she picks up the characters and just continues playing out the next scene. Her story progresses through the entire day-by-day lives of the characters; it never timeskips more than a few hours. She started writing and posting just eight months ago, she's about an eighth of the way through her planned fic timeline, and the content she has so far posted to AO3 for it is already 450,000 words long. But most of us are normal humans. We're not, for the most part, wired to create linearly. We consume linearly, we experience linearly, so we assume we must also create linearly. But actually, a lot of us really suffer from trying to force ourselves to create this way, and we might not even realize it. If you're the kind of person who thinks you need to carrot-on-a-stick yourself into writing by saving the fun part for when you finally write everything that happens before it: Stop. You're probably not a linear writer. You're making yourself suffer for no reason and your writing is probably suffering for it. At least give nonlinear writing a try before you assume you can't write if you're not baiting or forcing yourself into it!! Remember: Writing is fun. You do this because it's fun, because it's your hobby. If you're miserable 80% of the time you're doing it, you're probably doing it wrong!

2. Rereading my own work. I used to hate reading my own work. I wouldn't even edit it usually. I would write it and slap it online and try not to look at it again. XD Writing nonlinearly forced me to start rereading because I needed to make sure scenes connected together naturally and it also made it easier to get into the headspace of the story to keep writing and fill in the blanks and get new inspiration. Doing this built the editing process into my writing process--I would read a scene to get back in the headspace, dislike what I had written, and just clean it up on the fly. I still never ever sit down to 'edit' my work. I just reread it to prep for writing and it ends up editing itself. Many many scenes in this fic I have read probably a dozen times or more! (And now, I can actually reread my own work for enjoyment!) Another thing I found from doing this that it became easy to see patterns and themes in my work and strengthen them. Foreshadowing became easy. Setting up for jokes or plot points became easy. I didn't have to plan out my story in advance or write an outline, because the scenes themselves because a sort of living outline on their own. (Yes, despite all the foreshadowing and recurring thematic elements and secret hidden meanings sprinkled throughout this story, it actually never had an outline or a plan for any of that. It's all a natural byproduct of writing nonlinearly and rereading.)

Unpopular writing opinion time: You don't need to make a detailed outline.

Some people thrive on having an outline and planning out every detail before they sit down to write. But I know for a lot of us, we don't know how to write an outline or how to use it once we've written it. The idea of making one is daunting, and the advice that it's the only way to write or beat writer's block is demoralizing. So let me explain how I approach "outlining" which isn't really outlining at all.

I write in a Notion table, where every scene is a separate table entry and the scene is written in the page inside that entry. I do this because it makes writing nonlinearly VASTLY more intuitive and straightforward than writing in a single document. (If you're familiar with Notion, this probably makes perfect sense to you. If you're not, imagine something a little like a more contained Google Sheets, but every row has a title cell that opens into a unique Google Doc when you click on it. And it's not as slow and clunky as the Google suite lol) (Edit from the future: I answered an ask with more explanation on how I use Notion for non-linear writing here.) When I sit down to begin a new fic idea, I make a quick entry in the table for every scene I already know I'll want or need, with the entries titled with a couple words or a sentence that describes what will be in that scene so I'll remember it later. Basically, it's the most absolute bare-bones skeleton of what I vaguely know will probably happen in the story.

Then I start writing, wherever I want in the list. As I write, ideas for new scenes and new connections and themes will emerge over time, and I'll just slot them in between the original entries wherever they naturally fit, rearranging as necessary, so that I won't forget about them later when I'm ready to write them. As an example, my current long fic started with a list of roughly 35 scenes that I knew I wanted or needed, for a fic that will probably be around 100k words (which I didn't know at the time haha). As of this writing, it has expanded to 129 scenes. And since I write them directly in the page entries for the table, the fic is actually its own outline, without any additional effort on my part. As I said in the comment reply--a living outline!

This also made it easier to let go of the notion that I had to write something exactly right the first time. (People always say you should do this, but how many of us do? It's harder than it sounds! I didn't want to commit to editing later! I didn't want to reread my work! XD) I know I'm going to edit it naturally anyway, so I can feel okay giving myself permission to just write it approximately right and I can fix it later. And what I found from that was that sometimes what I believed was kind of meh when I wrote it was actually totally fine when I read it later! Sometimes the internal critic is actually wrong. 3. Marinating in the headspace of the story. For the first two months I worked on [fic], I did not consume any media other than [fandom the fic is in]. I didn't watch, read, or play anything else. Not even mobile games. (And there wasn't really much fan content for [fandom] to consume either. Still isn't, really. XD) This basically forced me to treat writing my story as my only source of entertainment, and kept me from getting distracted or inspired to write other ideas and abandon this one.

As an aside, I don't think this is a necessary step for writing, but if you really want to be productive in a short burst, I do highly recommend going on a media consumption hiatus. Not forever, obviously! Consuming media is a valuable tool for new inspiration, and reading other's work (both good and bad, as long as you think critically to identify the differences!) is an invaluable resource for improving your writing.

When I write, I usually lay down, close my eyes, and play the scene I'm interested in writing in my head. I even take a ten-minute nap now and then during this process. (I find being in a state of partial drowsiness, but not outright sleepiness, makes writing easier and better. Sleep helps the brain process and make connections!) Then I roll over to the laptop next to me and type up whatever I felt like worked for the scene. This may mean I write half a sentence at a time between intervals of closed-eye-time XD

People always say if you're stuck, you need to outline.

What they actually mean by that (whether they realize it or not) is that if you're stuck, you need to brainstorm. You need to marinate. You don't need to plan what you're doing, you just need to give yourself time to think about it!

What's another framing for brainstorming for your fic? Fantasizing about it! Planning is work, but fantasizing isn't.

You're already fantasizing about it, right? That's why you're writing it. Just direct that effort toward the scenes you're trying to write next! Close your eyes, lay back, and fantasize what the characters do and how they react.

And then quickly note down your inspirations so you don't forget, haha.

And if a scene is so boring to you that even fantasizing about it sucks--it's probably a bad scene.

If it's boring to write, it's going to be boring to read. Ask yourself why you wanted that scene. Is it even necessary? Can you cut it? Can you replace it with a different scene that serves the same purpose but approaches the problem from a different angle? If you can't remove the troublesome scene, what can you change about it that would make it interesting or exciting for you to write?

And I can't write sitting up to save my damn life. It's like my brain just stops working if I have to sit in a chair and stare at a computer screen. I need to be able to lie down, even if I don't use it! Talking walks and swinging in a hammock are also fantastic places to get scene ideas worked out, because the rhythmic motion also helps our brain process. It's just a little harder to work on a laptop in those scenarios. XD

In conclusion: Writing nonlinearly is an amazing tool for kicking writer's block to the curb. There's almost always some scene you'll want to write. If there isn't, you need to re-read or marinate.

Or you need to use the bathroom, eat something, or sleep. XD Seriously, if you're that stuck, assess your current physical condition. You might just be unable to focus because you're uncomfortable and you haven't realized it yet.

Anyway! I hope that was helpful, or at least interesting! XD Sorry again for the text wall. (I think this is the longest comment reply I've ever written!)

And same to you guys on tumblr--I hope this was helpful or at least interesting. XD Reblogs appreciated if so! (Maybe it'll help someone else!)

Very very much inspired by this artwork

One of my favorite moments from Vengeful that is not talked about enough.

(Vengeful page 494)

(This is inspired by this edit: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1XWjrMNmdZ/?igsh=NnA3NWl4ampydzg2 )