This Was Also My Experience. It’s Both Comforting And Depressing To Know I Wasn’t The Only One Who

Silent repost…

Though admittedly, it has gotten a lot better since the last time I have been in plural spaces… but there is still room for major improvement.

Blog posts like these still speak to me now as much as they did back then.

i hate the idea of syscourse being CDD systems versus endos because im fucking traumaENDO and i have DID. and i know people like me are forgotten because it makes discourse easier but it doesn't make me and people like me feel any more safe with any of yall. in fact it makes me see yall as less safe in general.

Ough wait a second....you're..."photogenic"? You need trauma to be a system, dumbass.

I don't think it's pro endo and anti endo

I think it's those who think CDDs are trauma based and those who don't

From there, personal interpretation and nuance is perfectly okay and should even be encouraged, and that's true for both sides

These spaces should never cross or there will be problems

It should be this simple

This might be a little bit mean idk, I can't tell if it is or not but I wanna say things.

"Sysmeds die or change" "Sysmeds are ableist scum" "Anti endos are worked up over nothing" ..Endos really haven't shown that they care about us outside shallow allyship.

They complain about our misery because we dare to talk about it around them, they talk over us when we bring up concerns then use pro endos with CDDs as scapegoats when we call them out, I'm convinced at least some of them genuinely think they're better than us because we're traumagen and they're not, even if they don't realize it, they make so many CDD systems feel unsafe talking about their experiences because they're "too traumatized" and "too medicalized", they come from a movement that honest to god hated CDD systems and demonized us, they view created plurals as the gold standard of systemhood/plurality, they attack any form of plurality outside of systemhood because "they're just endos in denial", they bitch and complain when they're not involved in literally everything system related, plenty of them believe CDD systems shouldn't have any exclusive spaces, that they're entitled to every space and term we have.

There's still rampant abeism all over their spaces that they refused to be called out for. I'm sorry but I just can't support them when just going into their spaces makes me feel so fucking awful. I can't support people who talk over me constantly on system issues then call me a sysmed. Idk if it's just me being a "big meanie persecutor" but endos piss me off.

With what I've seen endos say and do, it's hard to believe that they actually give a shit about us. It just comes off as surface-level and superficial, like they only care because they want to be in our spaces. That's just how things come across to me idk.

All I'm saying is, if endo communities don't change, I'll never be pro endo.

-Toby

You have more in common than you think. After all, we're all here, aren't we?

Syscourse often creates lines. Endogenic VS Traumagenic. Anti-endo VS Pro-endo. Disordered VS Non-disordered.

But each of these binaries is a spectrum, just as all things are. There's middle grounds, and even in terms of these binary ideas, they are also spectrums in of themselves.

We often push others away due to these binaries, and often feel swells of anger about these binaries. Today, I want to challenge everyone to step back and find the commonalities in what others say.

Remember: there's someone real on the other side of those words. They're not just a cruel comment -- they're a person.

Tbh I feel like the anti->neutral->pro endo pipeline is pretty close to the recovery pipeline, but I don't think syscourse is ready for that conversation yet.

anti-endos expect endogenic Systems to produce 137 quadruple-peer-reviewed studies each with N=10,000+ participants in an fMRI scan with a voxel resolution of 1 µm³ showing to within p<0.00000001 that endogenic Systems are real, meanwhile the existence of their disorder is still being attacked by people with impressive credentials

reblog if you're traumaendo and you feel alone in the system community.

the point of this is to see how many people feel similarly.

If it’s alright to ask - an argument I often see made by people in syscourse spaces is that “even the DSM doesn’t say DID is caused by childhood trauma” and that the literature around DID doesn’t say it’s caused by childhood trauma. I always want to refute this because I KNOW DID is exclusively caused by childhood trauma, but I feel like I don’t know how.

I’m also not anti-endo at all, I fully believe non-disordered multiplicity exists, I’m just tired of hearing that argument and knowing it’s wrong but not knowing how to refute it.

I also see arguments like “the DID community owes the non-disordered plurals because so much of the early community was MADE BY US!” which really rubs me the wrong way. I feel like there are a billion reasons why disordered multiplicity would have been mistaken as “not caused by trauma” even by trauma survivors themselves back before we had as much info on it as we do now. It feels like such a strange, disingenuous interpretation of the data. I dunno! I’m hoping you could share some of your thoughts on this if you have the spoons.

I get it

The fact is, the DSM DOES say that DID is caused by trauma. There's several pages to the entry that are often ignored that contain a lot more information about the trauma basis of the disorder.

Hell, look at criteria B

DSM 5, not TR, I don't have the TR in front of me, but it's the same

That "and/or" doesn't mean trauma is optional, it means you may or may not remember it

The entry goes on to discuss things that could trigger onset of noticeable symptoms, including a bunch of stuff about having childhood trauma retriggered in adulthood that pretty much make it impossible to deny

The number of research papers and researchers who call DID a childhood trauma disorder is insane, including Spiegel, who played a huge role in writing the DSM's dissociative disorders section

In 2011, he wrote

And now we have brain scans supporting this, the DSM 5 TR has been updated to mention these scans in the DID section

I would suggest reading this post, which contains supporting links that cover the above and that go into GREAT detail about adjacent topics

Even the ICD incorporated the ToSD and its trauma basis into their DID section

As for community history, CDD spaces existed a lot longer than people think!! Our history goes back longer than anyone thinks.

Here's a short deep dive

It's so important that we continue to talk about this history and how and when things happened.

It matters

CDD systems built our own communities first. While plurality has overlapped with some of it, and things like simply plural came from the plural community, it's not like we just didn't have community. It was smaller and quieter, limited by technology of the day, but it's there, and we even had our own version of SP which was literally killed in cold blood by endogenic systems

It's frustrating, keep talking about our history, it's there

Can we stop saying people with covert DID/OSDD or other covert forms of plurality are privileged? Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t understand how suffering in a way that goes unnoticed is more privileged than suffering in a way that’s noticed.

Both have their ups and downs person-to-person. So what makes one more privileged than the other?