Vanya: *writing About Allison In 'Extra Ordinary'*

With Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, Tim Burton looks like he might be aiming to do the funniest thing that’s ever happened in one of his movies. I’m extremely here for it. Like, honestly, let the antagonist and the protagonist fall in love (with or without meaning to) while working together to save somebody else. Thirty-six years and multiple franchise iterations have determined we love them because they’re both freaks; what have you even got to lose?

I'm thinking of doing a babes week this spring/summer

Everyone is welcome to participate!

The prompts we've got this far are

- Mirror

- Cemetery

- Favorite holiday

- Rock

- Beach

Suggestions are appreciated 🌞

Oh no she actually mentioned using Ovid, Shakespeare's Ulysses, and other sources in an interview.

Oh neat..

However Ovid does not depict Circe being assaulted in his work thankfully. Her stories center around her unrequited love, jealousy, and the consequences of her powerful magic. The focus is on her role as a sorceress who transforms others, not as a victim.

That's a main difference that Miller has been making in her works is the useless plot device of using women's suffering and trauma for shock value.

Like miller you are ruining the source material and the image of those old poets.

Guess who read tua

No for real, at this point I'm more willing to believe that she somehow got her bachelor's and master's in Classics without having read the Odyssey and the Iliad, than her having read the Odyssey and the Iliad once in her life

Or maybe she read it once at five years old and thought it was enough

Oh no she actually mentioned using Ovid, Shakespeare's Ulysses, and other sources in an interview.

Oh neat..

However Ovid does not depict Circe being assaulted in his work thankfully. Her stories center around her unrequited love, jealousy, and the consequences of her powerful magic. The focus is on her role as a sorceress who transforms others, not as a victim.

That's a main difference that Miller has been making in her works is the useless plot device of using women's suffering and trauma for shock value.

Like miller you are ruining the source material and the image of those old poets.

I'm a sucker for soft toonverse (though darktoonverse is also chefs kiss) and so I decided to draw them on a movie date. Lyds fell asleep though, and Beej can't help but be captivated by her, the simp.

^^^^^^^ All of this.

There's a difference between 'telling your own version' of a myth, and telling a completely different story. If you need to change a pre-existing character so much that they feel like a new character, then it's simply bad writing.

Miller is especially self-righteous about her retellings in interviews. Are her retellings 'other versions' of the myths? If by 'other versions' you mean distorting the mythology and missing its point, or utilizing foreign mythology as an aesthetic to draw people in, then yeah, I guess.

Readers who are ignorant of the myths or have no respect for the culture those myths belong to, will then take Miller's distorted stories as fact, and assume that hers is the correct way of telling them. And, evidently, Miller's fans will not tolerate anyone criticizing her.

Well I promise you that her books give the opposite impression.

In fact, her characterization of Patroclus alone is enough for me to doubt her both as an academic and as a researcher.

(Not to mention her tendency to invent unnecessary details, things that don't happen in the myths, like Circe getting assaulted, which was specifically added to 'justify' Circe's behaviour in the Odyssey. A+ writing, how very progressive)

A classicist like Miller should know that when you apply modern standards to an ancient myth, essentially removing it from the era in which it was written, and ignoring the reasons the myth was created, then you're missing half of the context.

Either she

has severely misunderstood the characters in the Homeric epics and Greek mythology in general (which doesn't say much about her as a classicist), or

she does understand the characters in the myths, but she cares more about what kind of story will 'sell'. She's thinking, "Let's see, if I frame Homer as problematic, and promote my books as the solution to the 'Homer problem', then of course people will prefer my stories."

If it's the latter, it's not a surprise, and she's not the first person to do it, and unfortunately she won't be the last.

@rightwheretheyleftme I think you're going into these retellings without fully grasping the purpose and cultural value of Greek mythology. I think you're glorifying these retellings regardless of how off the mark they are when it comes to characterization.

@lez-exclude-men If you're enjoying Miller's books that much, then I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who needs to get 'elbows deep' in research. But if you have no desire to do all that work, maybe you shut up and let people express their opinions? Miller's work is flawed, and we are allowed to point it out.

This isn't about Miller being a woman, and it isn't about all retellings being inherently bad. This is about Miller not respecting and not understanding the mythology she's so eager to 'fix'.

So Madeline Miller is writing a Persephone retelling. So let's make our bets about the book.

The winners will win this picture of a brick.

So let's make a bet.

A.) She will potray Demeter as an abusive mother, whaile the kidnapping will be ereased, and Hades will be baby boyfied.

B.) Hades will be potrayd as eveil incarnate, and Demeter will be potrayd as a poor poor blorbo (similar to how she potrayd Circe)

C.) Both will be potrayd as the worst. Demeter, and Hades will be potrayd as abusive, and Persephone will be potrayd as a poor poor girl who always has to suffer.

My bet is that it will be C.).

Tethys: Titaness, daughter of Uranus and Gaia, wife of Oceanus and mother of the Oceanids. She was also Hera’s foster mother during the Titanomachy.

Styx: Oceanid, Zeus’ ally in the Titanomachy, mother of Nike, Zelus, Bia and Kratos. She’s the river that separates the Underworld from the living, and the one Gods swear their oaths upon.

Metis: Oceanid, the embodiment of wisdom and cunning, Athena’s mother by Zeus. She helped Zeus free his siblings and was his counsellor during the Titanomachy. 

Electra: Oceanid, she married the sea god Thaumas, and one of her kids was Iris, the messenger of the Gods. I drew her hair like that because her name derives from the word ἤλεκτρον, which means amber, and amber can acquire a static electricity charge. 

Wish (2023): a Review

this is the film I get? (da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da)