An Anon Mentioned They Thought It’d Be Cute If Delia Was A Big Jessilina Fan And I Responded Saying

poltergeist

Because theres GOTTA be a reason for some of his downright criminal fits.

What do you think of Ray's character arc so far in TPN?

So, if Emma’s main strength and her flaw is her boundless optimism then Ray’s in contrast is his fatalism. This is a well balanced trio after all. As Ray never really had a chance to be an innocent child and was aware he was livestock from the beginning, this produces two unique effects to Ray. The first being that Ray is constantly in survival mode and only thinking in terms of survival and not necessarily what to do next, and second that Ray thinks his own self is worthless.

When Ray does what he does to survive, he doesn’t think he’s in the right though which is where his second flaw primarily comes from. Having not only to act as if everything was fine the whole time, but also to deal with the guilt that he was helping sell some of the children down the river in order to guarantee his future safety eroded away at his sense of self worth. 

In The Promised Neverland evil does not just take the form of demons who simply eat and hunt children farmed for them without questioning it. It also takes the form of grown up children like the Mamas who have entirely given up on trying to find anything better from the system and instead resign themselves to only caring about their own survival.

Ray is similar to those Mamas, but he is also different because there was never a point where he was a child. He is instead somebody who gave up from the beginning, however because he is still a child at this time there’s still a chance to save him. 

Emma’s boudnless optimism is of course, the counter to this fatalism that damns all of the adults. Even when she learns that Ray btrayed them, and worse knew that people like Connie were dying but purposefully sold them down the line in order to buy them time, her response is not “What you’ve done is unforgiveable” but rather “Never do that again.” Which is where the shoneny part comes in in this manga. 

The ultimate good is Emma’s unwillingness to never stop seeking for something better for not only her, but everyone around her. She genuinely wants to save every kid, even when she sees obvious setbacks or dangers to that ideal. The ultimate evil is just resigning to the world the way it is and instead deciding to save only yourself. 

Ray tries to deal with this contradiction by landing firmly in the middle. His plan from the beginning was always to save a few people by sacrificing himself. This is however, him succumbing to his second flaw, his own self loathing over what he’s done to survive in order to get to this point. As Emma already pointed out Ray had a path in front of him, he just had to stop trying to sell people out in order to benefit the many. However. if Emma was willing to forgive him and look on, Ray couldn’t forgive himself which is where his attitude of sacrificing himself came from.

He’s trying to die a heroic death to make up for what he’s done so far to survive, but in reality he’s committing the same mistake of the adults. He’s giving up, he’s deciding “that’s enough, this is all I can do.” Rather than trying to live on with the mistakes he’s made so far he’s just trying to make one final sacrifice as if that can make up for it.

But Ray himself even says so, that even born into the worst life possible that he was only cattle, aware of it the whole time, and selling out his beloved siblings, he still saw something in his life. Which is exactly why Emma saves him.

However, when Ray gets outgambitted this introduces us to his third flaw. His inferiority to Norman, a flaw which Emma shares as well. Remember as I mentioned in Norman’s post, Norman is the most well balanced of the trio, Emma is emotional and too optmistic, Ray is logical and too pragmatic. Norman being the balancing factor of the trio had all of Emma’s optimism and all of Ray’s pragmatism so to both of them he looks like a better version of themselves. 

So Ray’s intention is to sacrifice himself, but he’s entirely outgambitted by Norman. Not only does Norman get the heroic sacrifice, and plan something even better than the plan Ray has been working all his life on, but he also saves Ray and forces Ray to live in a world without Norman. Which clearly affects Ray a little bit, he full on hallucinates a conversation with Norman who as far as he knows is dead.

So, the next two arcs after this are mostly Emma’s development forcus rather than Ray’s (to be fair basically the entire first 36 chapters was Ray’s time to develop and not Emma’s, Emma starts wanting to save everybody and her only real test of character is losing Norman.) However, Ray has two important points of development and it’s good to look at them from the angle of Ray is forced to live on in Norman’s place beside Emma instead, and he feels vastly inferior to Norman. Number one is ray’s tendency to sacrifice himself and use himself as a diversion has not gone away even though Ray himself is self aware of this quality of his at this point.

The scond is that Ray has met his shadow in adult form. Oddly enough it’s not actually his literal mother, but rather it’s nameless.

Nameless is another adult who has given up and only cares for surviving the world, and not improving it. Not only that but he shows the same cynicism that early Ray shows, that they can only save a select few and everything else gets in the way. 

It’s also Ray’s specific trauma, having to sell out others in order to survive that made Nameless this way. Not only that, but the more charismatic leader of the group, the more hopeful one Lucas sacrificed himself in order to make sure Nameless would live, and not only does Nameless feel vastly inferior but he can’t keep hoping the same way that Lucas did. 

So while Ray’s development isn’t the focus of this arc, he still has a shadow in the form of Nameless who not only reflects his relationship to his past trauma, but also to the inferiority he feels for putting Norman on a pedestal and measuring himself up against that.

Both of these are things that erode away Ray’s identity, which is why Nameless is Nameless in the first place because trauma overwrote who he was to begin with. However, Nameless shares the exact same message that Emma imparted Ray with, that even if he’s done terrible things up until this point he can still live. 

Ray and Nameless’ response to the world is “I can’t live on with this.” and their greatest temptation is to just give into their fatalism and fall to everything they’ve done so far, but it comes from a place of survivor’s guilt. They genuinely believe they’re not deserving of living on, as opposed to people like Mama who were able to sell out everyone for their own survival. However, Emma’s message is different, she tells them it was a good thing that they lived, that it’s a net positive to live, and keep living on. 

Nameless believes his comrades sacrificed themselves for someone worthless like him, and Emma’s response is to say it wasn’t worthless, because his comrades wouldn’t wish death on him, they would want him to live. 

That too is probably what the message is going to be for Ray in his own arc. That he’s not inferior to Norman, that there is a reason he himself has lived to this point and he just needs to look for it the same way Emma does. 

unova adventure !!

You once mentioned that Dabi's symbol of rebirth is the Phoenix. Ever since I read that post of yours a long time ago, I haven't stopped thinking about it. The imagery hit me profoundly! Do you mind elaborating? Thanks!

Is Hawks more like Icarus or like a Phoenix? I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not...

It’s my theory the actual rebirth / phoenix imagery is associated with Dabi rather than Hawks. If only because death and rebirth symbolizes a change in a character. In Tarot the Major Arcana “13″ symbolizes Death as the idea of a great change being brought, and a symbolic death of the old previous life or old self, rather than just straightforward dying. 

This rebirth imagery is connected to Dabi rather than Hawks, because not only has Dabi already experienced a death and rebirth by fire - Toya burning to death, and ressurrecting from the ashes somehow as Dabi. His new name literally meaning “cremation” a death by fire. The way Dabi is written now is also meant to be a “change” from who Toya used to be, Toya was someone who at some point was eager to become a hero, Dabi is a villain dedicated to bringing his father down. All of these ideas of change are associated with Dabi, not Hawks. 

1. The Phoenix

Dabi has already committed a lot of symbolic steps that would make him a phoenix. As stated above, he already experienced a death and rebirth once, Todoroki Toya dying and coming back as Dabi. The first time we see him named in the manga, comes from his father staring at his funeral portrait wishing for him to come back. 

Hawks has wings, and Dabi does not. However, I would make the argument that Dabi is the phoenix because he’s the one whose entire character is written around change. Dabi has even done a few phoenix related things already. We’ve seen him fly. 

The phoenix is also a bird that famously burns itself. The fires it’s reborn out of are, flames of self immolation. Hawks quirk is vulnerable to fire yes, but using his quirk doesn’t actively harm him. Dabi is the one so committed to burning himself over and over again, and burning in his own flames, in the hope that he can make a positive change on society. 

Say whatever you want about Dabi (you won’t hurt his feelings, he doesn’t have any), but at least ideologically Dabi follows Stain’s ideals, he believes you have to commit a purge or in other words, burn the previous society so that a new society can be reborn from the ashes. This is also once again, phoenix imagery, rebirth from ashes. 

Dabi is a character written around the concept of change, and being a bringer of change. 

2. The Light

Okay, before I start let me say I believe both Hawks and Dabi have the potential to learn healthier behaviors and grow as people. Seeing Hawks deteriorate mentally, and fall back on worse and worse behaviors isn’t I want to happen, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s what is being shown in the writing. 

Hawks and Dabi both have the potential for great change, but we are shown Hawks being given the oppurtunity continually and not taking it. Dabi is set up for redemption, and Hawks is set up to take a fall. By redemption literally all I mean is that Dabi looks like he’s going to have a character arc where he improves in some way and unlearns his unhealthy, self-destructive behaviors. Hawks also has an oppurtunity to unlearn these behaviors, but he can’t really do it if he refuses to change himself or his beliefs in any way. 

Hawks moves towards the shadows, Dabi moves towards the light. The writing around Dabi also suggests several times that rather than putting down Dabi, there is going to be reintegration of both the Dabi and Touya personalities. 

If Dabi and Enji are truly foils, then if Enji is given the chance to learn to be both Endeavor the Hero, and also Enji Todorokit the father, then why wouldn’t the same chance be extended to Dabi? If the message of Enji’s arc is that you can at any point, turn around, and that the smallest things can chance people. If fire you thought once only existed to burn can be redefined in a much more healthier lens, then why would not that same idea be extended to his son? Enji even reflects on this, what about the future I cut short? 

The future he cut short, sounds like he’s referring to Toya. Natsuo also brings up Toya for the first time shortly before this reflection. Endeavor accepts the idea that like Natsuo said, Toya’s death was his fault. Enji expresses twice, first that he wanted Toya to return to the dinner table, and second that he never truly believed Toya was dead even after they discovered in jaw bone in the fire. 

Shoto’s words to his father as well, you can become a better person from here on out, even if you’re not forgiven from what you did in the past because small words, can change a person. 

The path forward is not destruction, but reintegration. In a jungian sense that means accepting both sides of yourself, both the conscious mind (the light) and the unconsious mind / repressed self (the shadow). In terms of character, it would be Enji being able to view himself both as Enji Todoroki the man who failed his family and Endeavor the hero. It would be Shoto being able to accept both his fire and ice sides. It would be Dabi being able to accept both Toya the hero-hopeful, and then Dabi the villain. You notice how all three of them are split down the middle in this way, all three of them experience a split self that they need to reintegrate. 

Self destruction doesn’t work. Enji tries to burn his past self when he kills the High End and what does everyone in his family say to him. None of us forgive you just because you beat up a hero on the television. You haven’t done anything yet to change yourself. 

Enji attempts to just kill the past and move forward and that doesn’t work for him, as Dabi himself says so, the past never dies. If Dabi insists that the past never dies, he has the same immortality as the phoenix. 

Hawks is someone when given the oppurunity to change his mind, just doesn’t do it. He has someone who sympathized with him and trusted him and offered him a path forward that he didn’t take. Let me put it simply. If Hawks is Twice. If Hawks wants to be like Twice. If Twice is Hawks path forward, and then Hawks kills twice what does that say? 

If Hawks kills the guy he wants to be like - if he sees himself in Twice then murders him then, what does that say about the way Hawks views himself? I’m not reacting to whether or not Hawks is a good or bad person, but the framing. Hawks is framed tragically, Twice even says this out loud, it’s sad, pitiable that Hawks can’t make friends or trust people. That he’s so committed to doing everything all alone. 

Destruction isn’t the path forward, but reintregration. If Shoto’s ultimate desire is to learn to love himself, and be at peace with himself, then why would he hunt down and kill the person he views as the same as himself?

“I was also burning”. I agree that Dabi does not have an arc. Rather, his arc hasn’t begun yet. That’s because we’ve only been introduced to Dabi as a character when the Touya reveal happened, before that he literally was just a mystery lingering in the background. 

However, the set-up with Dabi points to this arc of change and rebirth. All of the foreshadowing around Toya is “we want Toya to come home” and “Dabi reflects the part of myself I needed Midoriya to save me from”. Dabi and Hawks both have the potential to change, however, if you look at the framing Dabi is framed with the chance for redemption because the idea of change is written into the center of his character, whereas Hawks is someone who tragically stays the same. It’s been brought up several times, Hawks is the bird who stays in his change, who does the same things over and over. 

The bird stays in his cage because he can’t survive out of it. Dabi is the phoenix because he symbolizes both this change to society, a change in endeavor that has to take place in order for him to be there for his family, and a change in himself he needs to make in order to continue living. Hawks is icarus, because he’s set to take a fall. His inability to change in time, his desire to keep flying towards the same sun will only lead to his fall. 

Finally got around to playing pathologic (classic first, against the recommendations of pretty much everyone) and i'm just on day four but... DANIIL IS SO NICE WITH THE TOWN KIDS?? He talks to them really sweetly and, while he has the option to be a bit of an ass (and end the conversation mostly out of what seems to be impatience and not intentional assholery), he is perfectly capable of going along with them and their games. Like one really has to notice the difference after reading daniil's lines with a drunk just after talking to the little shmowder girl, his tone is completely different. Like, he calls her pumpkin and all. I was genuinely baffled by this, quite a few characterizations of Daniil i have seen portray him as either bad with kids or at loss of what to do with them?? it's not that it doesnt make sense, one would expect such an attitude from him considering everything else about his personality, but the fact that he *is* good with kids is such a nice little subversion of his "trope" and it sucks that it gets overlooked so often

He’s been getting away with it for years. No one on the crew has caught on yet.