Hey same guy I like your meta but I feel like this is more out of character beyond something TCW related. For example in most books I read on Dooku they never mention him having a preference for humans and even though the dark side changes people I don't remember a case that a dark sider suddenly became racist because of their arrogance. So unless Dooku hid it so well to the point where they don't mention it even in his point of view I don't see how that is in character for him. I don't want to dismiss but it doesn't really add up to other material I have. To me he is the type of person who could care less about species and more about how useful the person is and is arrogant to everyone not just one species. I understand how he feels about cybernetics for Anakin and Grievous would be in character but not the rest. That's how I feel at least.
Hey um I saw your Dooku meta and I just wanted to mention that in the Revenge of the Sith novelization it's been mentioned that Dooku was a bit out of character when it came to his racism because it makes no sense in context and was never mentioned before. What do you think? Personally I feel like those quotes out of character because he wasn't revolted by Yoda or other Jedi.
Hey! Tbh I’ve never heard that argument before so I don’t really know what to say. It’s usually something people say when they are not happy with the canon and, as someone who has been used the OOC argument before, I think people should be more careful with that.
Anyway, Dooku’s ‘arrogance’ is part of the movie canon. George cast Christopher Lee because he wanted a gentleman to play the role, he wanted to the character to have a certain ‘nobility’ feel. Plus, Christopher Lee himself talks about Dooku’s lack of morals and quest for power.
"He's very aloof, very self-contained, obviously completely fearless," describes Lee. "He is extremely intelligent, perhaps more so than almost anyone else. He's obviously a man of immense power. I don't suppose that the question of moral values enter into his head. He's not immoral -- he's amoral. Morality is a word that doesn't figure in his vocabulary at all. It's power. Which is something that exists very much in our world today." But was Dooku always like this? New fiction from the Expanded Universe will soon shed light on Dooku's younger days. The forthcoming Star Wars: Legacy of the Jedi, by Jude Watson and Scholastic Inc., tells a tale when Dooku was a noble Jedi Knight. Like his pupil, Qui-Gon Jinn, he will be headstrong and unorthodox for a Jedi Knight. "Maybe at one time when he was younger, when he became a Jedi, I'm sure he did behave in a totally moral and correct way," speculates Lee. "Probably like the old Knights Templar when they started in the 12th century, they started as very good people to protect all the pilgrims on the Crusades. But gradually over the years they disintegrated morally, spiritually and in every way. I know that because I played the Grand Master of the Templars in a film. Eventually, their whole order disintegrated. Who's to say that this isn't going to happen in the third Episode?" [x]
Stover’s interpretation of Dooku as a prejudiced, arrogant men his not unique either. The same side of him was explored by James Luceno in Labyrinth of Evil, and by Dave Filoni and George Lucas in The Clone Wars (just watch his treatment of Maul, Savage and the nightsisters).
Arrogance and subjugation of those they deem ‘inferior’ are common traits in sith lords so I don’t see him being arrogant and prejudiced a problem, especially in terms of characters development. Also, Labyrinth of Evil and Revenge of the Sith are set during the final years of the Republic, when Dooku is already a Sith Lord. and we all know that people change when they join the dark side so maybe what we know of Dooku as an adult was exacerbated by the dark side. The way Anakin’s anger and pain took a completely different turn when he became Vader.
In stover’s defense, he worked closely with George when writing the book so if the idea of Dooku being like that had been so OOC I have no doubt George or LF would’ve done something. the idea that the EU was this mess where everyone could do as they please is unrealistic.
Personally, before I call anything OOC I like to dig deep into the lore and leave my own bias at the door. I’ve read plenty of stuff about my favorites that I don’t like but once I considered the context I’ve accepted why it was written. It’s the same thing happening right now with fans pissed at TCW and Filoni because they made the Jedi Order ‘political’, saying it’s all OCC. The Order has always been political, people has just been in denial.
Another dumb thing i just realized about Luke dying in TLJ um we know Luke and Leia basically have the attributes of Anakin like his potential and power right? So they have to have the bodies in order to contain that power like before TLJ Luke is never implied to be feeling tired or in pain by using his power or is never work to over train himself or he might get hurt or die and even proclaimed by Obi-wan to be the chosen one suggesting he can reach Anakin's potential. So based on this we can presume Luke has Anakin's durability in terms of using force powers a lot and using a lot of energy. So why did Anakin was capable of using a godly amount of energy to over power to godly beings like the son and daughter and still live without any drawbacks yet Luke died from just projecting himself with the force across a few solar systems in a projection that minus well be a hologram in terms of how little it does? Like Anakin should technically not have as much durability as Luke does to handle that considering he was going to unlock his full potential most likely later in life as he is implied to be nowhere near Palpatine in canon. The more i think of the sequels the more angry i get.
hello boop tag pls feel free to spam me with hoops 🐾
please do this, i really want to know how many people don’t actually despise him
Luke is stronger because he is in his prime which Anakin didn't get but if Anakin had a few more years he would. Essentially Luke had more opportunities but to make it clear this is Luke long after return of the Jedi though some people argue by ROTJ for some reason.
Ok um, one thing I saw rather recently and it's basically blowing my mind and it's the fact there are at least around 30 statements on Anakin being the strongest jedi/warrior/sith either of all time or in his era. None of them say he is potentially the strongest jedi or that he could be they just outright says he is. I am not going to post all of them but the majority
Clearly Anakin was as strong in the Force as any Jedi who had ever sat on the Council. But as Obi-Wan had told him time and again, the essence of being a Jedi didn't hinge on attaining mastery of the Force, but on attaining mastery over oneself.
(Obi-Wan Kenobi | Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil)
But Coruscant was not only the heart of the government and the location of the Galactic Senate. It was also the home of the Jedi Temple. As the Separatist attack began, a message was beamed to the Outer Rim, summoning the Jedi’s greatest warriors home. Before the Separatist fleet could leave the Coruscant star system with the Chancellor, they found themselves under attack. Waves of clone starfighters, led by Obi-Wan and Anakin, stormed around their ships.
(Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith junior novelization)
This is Anakin Skywalker: The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.
(Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
"It will be," he said slowly, meditatively, as though he spoke only to himself, "an embarrassment to be captured by him." The voice that answered him was so familiar that sometimes his very thoughts spoke in it, instead of in his own. "An embarrassment you can survive, Lord Tyranus. After all, he is the greatest Jedi alive, is he not? And have we not ensured that all the galaxy shares this opinion?"
(Dooku and Palpatine | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."
(Mace Windu | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."
(Palpatine | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
"And even if the prophecy has been misread. Anakin is the one Jedi we can best hope would survive an encounter with a Sith Lord."
(Agen Kolar | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.
(Leia Organa | Star Wars: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor)
"You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master." "What? How can you do this? This is outrageous! It's unfair! I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the Council and not be a Master?" It was a boy's expression of anger, but it was true. And, as history repeated itself because it had no other choice, Jacen was more powerful than any of them except Luke. And he was growing closer to Luke's strength by the day.
(Jacen Solo | Star Wars: Legacy of the Force - Bloodlines)
"Haden has written a story that goes to the emotional core of everything that happens in Episode III. Obi-Wan must confront every doubt, every misgiving about his time with Anakin. Has he failed his Padawan? Has he missed opportunities? Is he even worthy to have been the mentor to the galaxy's most powerful Jedi?"
(Randy Stradley | Star Wars Insider 79 - Clone Wars Villains Face Their Reckoning)
Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived. "Obi-Wan taught Anakin and Anakin has gone past him," he notes. "But when you get to that duel, it's emotional. That's where the mistake will be made. And if you know the characters, you know Obi-Wan isn't going to get emotional and he doesn't make mistakes."
(Dreamwatch #113 - Interview with Nick Gillard)
"Anakin's the most powerful Jedi around."
(Justin Lambros | Disney Adventures: Super Comics Special May 2005)
Many years from now, Luke and Leia Skywalker, offspring of the most powerful Jedi who ever lived, would understand their true destiny.
(Star Wars Revenge of the Sith - The Movie Storybook)
"Anakin's style has changed completely between Episode II and Episode III. He now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe."
(Nick Gillard | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith - Prima Official Game Guide)
Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in over a thousand years.
(Star Wars: Miniatures - Ultimate Missions - Revenge of the Sith)
This makes Anakin, in effect, a Jedi Master, a rank that Anakin, with his unprecedented power in the Force, feels has been long overdue.
(Star Wars: Miniatures - Ultimate Missions - Revenge of the Sith)
Anakin Skywalker was the most powerful Jedi the galaxy had ever known . . . Anakin was also peerless in combat, invincible against any opponent.
(Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection #8)
Thus, Darth Vader becomes a ‘fallen angel’ figure. From being the most powerful Jedi, a fearless hero of the Republic, Anakin falls to the lowest possible point because of his desire for power and security.
(Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection #12)
Deep and layered are the schemes of the Dark Lord Sidious, Sith Master and architect of the fall of the Republic. Perceiving in young Anakin Skywalker a strength as yet unseen among even the greatest of the Jedi, the Sith Lord engineers elements into his plans, rich in contingencies, that might either turn the troubled Jedi to his own purpose, or else destroy him altogether.
(Star Wars: Sideshow Collectibles - Asajj Ventress statue)
Darth Sidious adheres to a tradition of secrecy imposed by the Sith a thousand years before, working his evil schemes through intermediaries and dupes while remaining hidden in the shadows. His organization includes politicians and anarchists, crime lords and corrupt law enforcement, schemers and dreamers, the wealthy and the impoverished-and, as the war draws to a close, the most powerful Jedi Knight alive: Anakin Skywalker.
(Star Wars: The Clone Wars Campaign Guide)
The mightiest of the Jedi is Anakin Skywalker, rumored to be the Chosen One destined to bring balance to the Force.
(Star Wars: The Clone Wars Episode Guide)
Skywalker was seduced by the dark side of the Force. His boundless abilities fueled a sense of pride that hastened his fall . . . Palpatine elevated himself to the position of Emperor, and dispatched Vader as his ultimate enforcer. With his unparalleled Force abilities, Vader swept through the Jedi Temple.
(Official Star Wars Website - Databank: Darth Vader)
Here is a kicker there is this statement repeated 3 separate times by 3 Revenge of the sith related material implying this line was suppose to in the movie because you do not just repeat this line 3 times without a higher up wanting you to put it there in all 3 sources people are going to read
"Lord Vader, your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Go forth, my boy. Go forth, and bring peace to our Empire."
(Palpatine | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
"Lord Vader, your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you," the cloaked figure said. “Now go, and bring peace to the Empire."
(Palpatine | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith junior novelization)
"You have done well, my new apprentice. Your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Now go, Lord Vader, and bring peace to the Empire."
(Darth Sidious | Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith comic)
As the Clone Wars rage across the galaxy, young Jedi hero Anakin Skywalker falls to the dark side of the Force and becomes the most powerful enemy ever faced by the Jedi.
(Hasbro Star Wars - Revenge of the Sith action figure line)
Like for anyone wanting to argue Yoda or Mace are stronger than Anakin and could beat him in a fight you have to argue somehow all the people involved in this were exaggerating each and every time and that somehow no one else rained in or said they couldn't say that and let them license those statements. I don't know about anyone else but if an author, series creator, or licensed material says something over a dozen times about their character when does that statement stop being a mistake they might have made and start becoming an actual fact in their universe?
I'm not to defend Padme or Anakin but
1. It wasn't genocide there are at least millions more tusken raiders
2. There has rarely if ever been a good tusken raider. They constantly slaughter people and are never on trial because there is no trial in the first place.
3. Eh before becoming Darth Vader he saved at least billions of beings all across the Galaxy so that should make up for killing less than a hundred sentient beings.
4. Luke killed a few thousand if not million people by blowing up the death star yet he never stands trial either so how is that different
there was a kylo ren reference in star wars resistance tonight, apparently slaughtering villages is a hobby for him. the episode’s premise revolves around 2 kids running away from the FO after kylo killed their entire village, including their parents. FO wants to kill the kids, too.
Oh but poor babby Ben felt TERRIBLE about having to kill them, in fact how dare the villagers make him feel so bad these kids deserved to die for that and also children are terrorist enemy combatants too and should have been killed poor Ben did nothing wrong uwu
Also what are these kids whining about anyway? At least they didn’t have a powerful Dark Side user stalking them from their father’s left nut and their dead parents actually cared about them something something kitchen droid Bendemption 2k19!!!✌️👍💖
It does matter
It's my fault... It's all my fault... I don't reach out... Maybe I do but no one answers... But that doesn't matter...
Ok I know a lot of people already talked about the sequel trilogy and its many glaring issues but I wanted to address something that hasn't really been talked about as much as it should be and that is how strong Luke should be.
First of all, let's address a few basic facts which are: Anakin, Leia, and Luke are all confirmed to have the greatest potential by George Lucas himself and the movies which are implied multiple times like when Anakin in TPM is shown to have higher potential than Yoda and Palpatine also realizes Anakin could become stronger than him both he and Yoda are shown to be equals, Luke is stated to have the potential to overthrow Palpatine who is stated to be stronger than when he was in ROTS and Leia is stated by Yoda in ESB that she would be their best bet if Luke dies or falls to the dark side implying both are equals. So all 3 at max potential are capable of killing Palpatine the strongest villain in SW at that point mind you all 3 were implied to be capable of doing that in a rather short amount of time too.
Another basic fact as well Dooku got stronger and became a better duelist despite being in his 80s. Why is this relevant? Well, I have been noticing a lot of people saying Luke was too old and was not in his prime but what they don't know or realized is that Jedi and Sith don't get weaker with age if anything they get stronger. Hell, there is even a sourcebook from TCW stating Dooku was getting stronger throughout the war causing Palpatine to become rather uncomfortable with what was going on with his apprentice. Now Luke was not some old man very much past his prime when he died he was 8 years older than his father who was 45 and the same age as Mace Windu who was 53. So Luke if anything should be either *reaching* his prime or already be in it.
Let's also keep in mind one thing Luke was confirmed to be inactive and didn't train for 6 years. This is confirmed by the ROS visual dictionary stating Luke's temple was destroyed 6 years ago before The Force Awakens happens(Which leaves the question how the jedi were a myth? But that is a question for another time). So Luke wouldn't have gotten much weaker than what he once was.
And the final fact was that Anakin would be on the same level as the ones of mortis and so would Luke and Leia. This is confirmed multiple times.
Despite all these facts that are well known throughout SW TLJ Luke is somehow suggested to be inferior to Kylo,Rey and Palpatine. Hell he was stated to be afraid of Kylo and Rey's dark side power. Yet Luke should easily be someone who does not feel threatened by it because he is still far stronger. Let's keep in mind Palpatine is heavily suggested to be at his weakest in ROS until he absorbs the dyad and still stomps all over Rey and Kylo easily. So if a weakened Palpatine could do that why is Luke the guy who should have been above Palpatine *ages* ago somehow inferior to that version of Palpatine. No matter how you judge it Luke should be capable of basically due what Palpatine could do but even more.
I am just going to throw in what Luke could do or has done in the EU:
Originally Luke mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, easily defeat his dark side nephew by just staring at him(Ps Luke was pushing 60 when he did that), fought a being on the same level as the ones of mortis, shown incredible intelligence and wisdom as the grandmaster, has mastery over the dark side and is strong enough to the point that he is confident in beating beings on the same level as Vader without to much difficulty in the form of his nephew.
To anyone who wants to argue that Luke should not be that strong well you have to argue against the narrative as that's what he was to become when he reached his prime.
The Evolution of Anakin Skywalker's Music (From 9 to 45 Years Old)
Anakin´s story in music by John Williams